Subj: Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-11 13:43:38 EST
From: Morngrym
To: Duke Orion, Sir Dagron, Sir Balin, AllsFaire To: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Sylphee, Shumard
Greetings, Well, we still have those two charter documents to work on, the commentary on resigning, and the squire/page posting guide. Tuvor and Darkon provided a version of these documents, neither of which were received too well by this body. So, I wanted to take some time to formulate the resignation addition for the charter. I think our initiator is best suited to work on the Page/Squire posting guide... ;> After reading Tuvor's ideas, and those expressed by the officers, here is a rough draft. It is very basic because I intend for us to build on it through discussion and evolve it into what we need.
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Charter Amendment - Resignations:
Comments: Resigning from the guild is *not* something to be taken lightly. A great deal of thought should be given to such a decision. A Knight considering resignation should ensure that they give themselves ample time to make the decision and do not do so in haste. The mantle of Knighthood is difficult to earn and is very valuable. It is recommended that the Knight discuss concerns, etc, with the officers before making a final decision. Most of the time problems can be worked out and understanding achieved.
Procedure:
A Knight wishing to resign from KORT should do so with a post in the PRIVATE area. NO such posts are to be made in the public folder. The post in the private area should be civil and thoughtful, regardless of the circumstances of the resignation. It is unknightly and dishonorable to post the resignation in an inflamatory, disrespectful manner. Please show as much respect and love to KORT in your departure, as KORT showed to you when you were first accepted into the guild. Role Playing the resignation is also a good way to handle it.
A letter should also be sent to the guild officers, outlining the problems, conflicts, etc, that led to the resignation, whether these be of an IC, or OOC nature. This is appreciated a great deal and will ensure that KORT is constantly making an effort to improve and correct any problems that may exist.
Return to KORT:
A Knight who has resigned may return to KORT under the follow stipulations:
1.) A *minimum* of 4 weeks must pass between final resignation and the time of new request for re-admittance. This request should be submitted to the officers in email.
2.) The officers will discuss the request among themselves and the other Knights of KORT. The general consensus of opinions will be followed.
3.) If it is determinded that the person may be re-admitted, the offficers will decide on the terms. The person may be assigned to start over as a Page, Squire, or be granted full Knighthood again (with pennance), according to the decision of the officers. These terms shall not be questioned be the person seeking re-admittance.
4.) When a person returns to the guild, regardless of the level (Page, Squire, Knight), ALL former titles are lost. There is no exception to this rule.
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Ok gang, I think this gives us a pretty solid basis to start with. I think we need a good set of guidelines for this, but we don't want to get overly complicated...It doesn't need to be 3 pages long. ;>
Remember, this will just be one part of the greater document (Charter), along with the Posting guidelines and what already exists...
So, please comment on what I have here and we'll move towards a final copy. Remember, lets not make it any more complicated than it has to be. ;>
Morn
Checking notes here, making notes there... ;>
Date: 95-11-11 18:27:52 EST
From: Sylphee
To: Morngrym
CC: Duke Orion, Sir Dagron, Sir Balin, AllsFaire
CC: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Shumard Morn,
Not bad... but what happened to the notion of a waiting period before the resignation was 'accepted'? Do you still have our comments on Tuvor's version?
~Sylphee~
Subj: Re: Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-11 17:31:21 EST
From: AllsFaire
To: Morngrym, Duke Orion, Sir Dagron, Sir Balin
To: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Sylphee, Shumard
That was well done Morngrym, I have no additions or retractions at the moment. It seems clear and concise, strict and not too extreme. I like it :D Alls
Subj: Re: re Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-12 12:13:33 EST
From: Morngrym
To: Sylphee
CC: Duke Orion, Sir Dagron, Sir Balin, AllsFaire
CC: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Shumard
Hmmm...I did read Tuvor's origonal comments about a waiting period, but I don't have the actual text of our discussion about that. I thought everyone wasn't real supportative of the idea, so I didn't include it. My thinking on waiting periods is this: The thought and consideration about resigning should happen -BEFORE- a person does it. -That- is the waiting period...It was written that the decision should not be made in haste. Each person is responsible for this decision, so I don't think there needs to be a waiting period AFTER a resignation is submitted...sort of defeats the purpose of taking your time and giving it a lot of thought -BEFORE- you actually do it... ;> If people can resign, cause a uproar about it, then come back real quick before the waiting period expires (without any of the penalities that apply to a "full" resignation), then it puts us back to square one... So, I don't personally think we should have a waiting period after the fact. Other comments about this gang?
Morn ;>
Subj: Re: Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-12 13:33:48 EST
From: Sir Dagron To: Morngrym, Duke Orion, Sir Balin, AllsFaire
To: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Sylphee, Shumard
In a message dated 95-11-11 13:43:38 EST, Morngrym writes: << 3.) If it is determinded that the person may be re-admitted, the offficers will decide on the terms. The person may be assigned to start over as a Page, Squire, or be granted full Knighthood again (with pennance), according to the decision of the officers. These terms shall not be questioned be the person seeking re-admittance. >>
This is a bit ambiguous Morn ... I think it needs to be tightened up a tad ... can you be a bit more specific on the officers role in this matter?
DagSubj: Re: Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-12 13:54:46 EST
From: AllsFaire To: Sir Dagron, Morngrym, Duke Orion, Sir Balin
To: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Sylphee, Shumard
>>>>This is a bit ambiguous Morn ... I think it needs to be tightened up a tad ... can you be a bit more specific on the officers role in this matter?<<<<< --Dag
I *think* that the role of the officers is as it has been with the recent 5 that have returned. Each returning member is different and it seems most efficient to have the officers discuss what would be most appropriate for that individual case. Imphras' case is a good example in that Shu gave us a deadline with which to mail any comments we had on how it should have been handled. :)
AllsSubj: Re: re Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-12 14:17:21 EST
From: Sir Dagron To: Morngrym, Sylphee
CC: Duke Orion, Sir Balin, AllsFaire, Sir Auggie
CC: Viveane, Shumard
Lets talk about Human nature fer a sec..Suppose I find that there are things I cant agree with so I sit down and carefully think it over.. and decide I want to leave.. So I post it.. Then... like 2 million of us say "NO!!!!!! Please dont go! we can fix it.. ! ".... it seems to be the general way things happen We can act as group of responsible people and be patient and try to disuade any rash decisions.. or.. we can say "fine... see ya later.... " I think that once someone posts their intent to leave.. that's when a 2 week waiting period should start.. I hate losin friends.. I've lost too many over ther years..
Dagron
Subj: Re: Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-12 14:19:27 EST
From: Sir Dagron
To: AllsFaire, Morngrym, Duke Orion, Sir Balin
To: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Sylphee, Shumard
Agreed Sis.. :).. but i mean as part of the document. it must be cleared up a bit.. :)
Subj: Re: Charter Documents
Date: 95-11-12 18:12:43 EST
From: Morngrym
To: AllsFaire, Sir Dagron, Duke Orion, Sir Balin
To: Sir Auggie, Viveane, Sylphee, Shumard
A quote... ;>
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"3.) If it is determinded that the person may be re-admitted, the offficers will decide on the terms. The person may be assigned to start over as a Page, Squire, or be granted full Knighthood again (with pennance), according to the decision of the officers. These terms shall not be questioned be the person seeking re-admittance."
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Well, I knew that portion was a bit ambiguous when I wrote it...probably the most of any other portion. The basic idea here is to inact some sort of guidelines for readmission, without completly tieing the officers' hands. As Allsie said, each case is different. Recently we have had several people return (or they are currently in the process). Each case has been handled differently. It would have been real difficult to handle each exactly the same by a set of ridgid rules...
So, any suggestions gang on how we can tighten that up a little without making it too restrictive for the officer group, now and in the future? I'll think on it some more to...
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And waiting periods...
"I think that once someone posts their intent to leave.. that's when a 2 week waiting period should start.."
In the document I wrote that a person should speak to other guild members and the officers BEFORE resigning. Maybe that needs to be stressed more....that people should make --every effort-- to work things out before resorting to resignation. That is the time that things can be fixed if it is possible. If they can't be fixed, and the person does follow through with the resignation, then a waiting period is useless...
The encouragement here is for people to handle the problems *before* they resign. Once they actually resign, they have to live with the penalities if they wish to return. There has to be some sort of *personal responsibility*.
I just don't want to have a safety net for any Knight who decides to do something rash and throw things into turmoil, then return a week later, with no penalities. It defeats the purpose of the penalities we have been discussing entirely...Resignation isn't something to be used as a tool to enact a reaction, change, or anything else... Lets hear some input... ;) Morn ;>
Subj: Re: proposals... ;>
Date: 95-11-13 01:36:11 EST F
rom: Sir Auggie
To: Morngrym, Shumard, Duke Orion, Sir Dagron
To: Sir Balin, AllsFaire, Viveane, Sylphee
Fellow Officers... There are only a few items I like in either of the proposals as submitted... More in Tuv's than in Darkon's... I'd say at this point we (the officers) thank them for their efforts and start writing one that uses the opinions of us all.... They've both done what we asked... Your Loving Brother...
Augustus ;)